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In this episode, Messellech “Selley” Abebe talks with Wendy Cervantes about how immigration enforcement policies are shaping children’s daily lives, why fear and instability can have lasting developmental consequences, and what it would mean to truly center kids in immigration reform. Cervantes is the Director of the Immigration and Immigrant Families team at the Center for Law and Social Policy and co-founder of the Children Thrive Action Network. Together, Abebe and Cervantes explore the trauma many children in immigrant families experience, the ripple effects of detention and deportation on schools and communities, and the policy solutions that could better protect children’s safety, stability, and long-term well-being.

To learn more about Wendy Cervantes and her work, you can visit the Center for Law and Social Policy website, the Children Thrive Action Network website, and follow her on X, and BlueSky.

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Transcript

Selley Abebe  0:05  

What happens to kids when immigration officers stop seeing families as human, and children witness that loss of humanity? Today, we’re talking about immigration, but through a lens, we don’t hear enough about kids. Well, let me go back. We’re talking about immigration through a lens ee don’t want to hear about. Vulnerable kids. Because, as we’ve all seen, when immigration enforcement ramps up, it doesn’t just affect adults crossing borders. It affects kids sitting in classrooms, kids waiting for parents who don’t come home, kids trying to understand why they suddenly feel unsafe in places that used to feel normal, like school, church or the doctor’s office. And right now, the idea of unsafe is 20 times scarier than it’s ever been, especially for parents and especially for kids. Immigration enforcement in the US looks different than it has in decades. Not just more aggressive, but more frightening. And more willing to put children directly in the crosshairs.

Selley Abebe  1:18  

Ambassadors, we have a question for you. On Speaking of Kids, we help you understand how policy shows up in real life. But what are you not hearing us talk about that you think we should? With the state of the world today, there are so many things that need attention, so we’re asking you to tell us what’s on your mind. Email me at messellech@firstfocus.org. And for those wondering, it is spelled kind of like Mississippi, M, E, S, S, E, L, L, E, C, H, at first focus.org, I really want to hear from you. Today’s guest is Wendy Cervantes, a longtime child policy expert who spent more than two decades working at the intersection of immigration and child rights. Some of that work was right here at First Focus, and so yes, we have a little alumni moment today. Wendy is the director of immigration and immigrant families at the Center for Law and Social Policy, and co director of the Children Thrive Action Network. She’s also a mom raising daughters in this crazy world, as well as a proud daughter of Mexican immigrant parents, herself. For Wendy, the stakes are real, and I myself am a daughter of immigrants. Both of my parents immigrated from Ethiopia in the 70s, and I saw firsthand how hard my parents had to work to provide for my two brothers and I. Most children of immigrants, carry deep love for America, and it’s all done while still being connected to their cultural roots, because, as you’ll hear, the stories of today are built on the stories of yesterday. Wendy, thank you so much for being here. This is such a treat, and I am looking forward to this conversation, because it’s so timely right now.

Wendy Cervantes  3:07  

I’m looking forward to it too. Yeah, thanks for having me so you

Selley Abebe  3:11  

know, Wendy, you’ve spent many years working at the intersection of immigration and child policy, and you know, as we see heightened immigration enforcement right now, including, you know, the recent activity, ice activity in Minnesota. Can we just pause for a minute so our audience can really understand, how did we get here, like, historically, politically, you know, and what shifts made right now possible?

Wendy Cervantes  3:38  

Well, I mean, I do think it’s important to recognize that this isn’t the first time that our country has has really turned against immigrants, and we haven’t seen anything quite like the attacks that we’re seeing now, not since the internment of the Japanese in World War Two, or the repatriation of Mexicans that was done under the Eisenhower administration. But I think we are seeing a very similar type of attack on immigrant families across the country, and it’s really been a result of just years of real racism that has, like really become more clear in terms of the way our immigration system has evolved Over time, the way that it has become more punitive, and then the way that it’s become really politically charged, and we’re now in a place where we have an administration that is very specifically using immigration as a wedge issue, as an opportunity to gain political points, and Also using really scapegoating the immigrant community that contribute significantly to our country and whose children are an important part of our country’s future, and really, truly, literally going after them and rounding them up and seeking to deport them, and actually saying that they’re doing it in order to, you know, Pres. Serve our country, when, in actuality, what’s happening is that they’re using this campaign against immigrants and this deportation agenda to really help to justify what they’re doing in terms of like dismantling our democracy.

Selley Abebe  5:14  

And you know, Wendy to that point, and just for our listeners, one in 420, 5% roughly 25% of children in the United States of America come from children of immigrants. Isn’t that stat, right? Did that shift?

Wendy Cervantes  5:29  

Yeah, it’s currently one in four children have at least one parent that was born outside the US, and the vast majority of these kids are US born citizens. Yeah.

Selley Abebe  5:39  

I mean, you know, when people talk about the American dream, that’s why both of my parents came here from Ethiopia. So many people have roots, you know, in other places. But I just wanted to underscore how much of a children’s issue immigration actually is. And I think sometimes it’s easy to, you know, we always say children are an afterthought, but Wendy to just kind of dig a little deeper when immigration enforcement ramps up to your point, policymakers do often frame it as restoring order or deterrence. From a historical policy perspective, what has enforcement been designed to achieve, and where has it fallen short, particularly when children are involved?

Wendy Cervantes  6:24  

Yeah, well, I mean, I think it’s important before we even talk about immigration enforcement, is to, like, understand, first of all, just how, for how long our immigration system has really failed to meet the needs of our country and as well as the people who are seeking to immigrate here, whether it be to reunify with family or to, you know, search for a better opportunity. And you know, our system is so broken that even the family immigration system, as a good example, has had extremely long backlogs where families have have to wait up to 20 years sometimes to be able to reunify for a parent who’s looking to reunify with the child growing up here in the US. That’s that child’s entire lifetime, their entire childhood, really. And we have a refugee and asylum system that’s pretty much been gutted for people who are actually coming here in search of safety. And over the years, we have seen our immigration system become highly punitive, and really this, that’s where we’re seeing this like trend to criminalize and dehumanize immigrants, which is what we’re seeing even more so now, and immigration enforcement has become less about just making sure you know the rules are being followed and that people are staying only the amount of time they can come and things like that. And it’s really become this form of punishment. Immigrate, overstaying a visa, or, you know, immigration related offenses that are you know about the type of paperwork you have, are civil offenses. They are not criminal. Yet we are jailing not only adults, but children. So we are seeing immigration enforcement become just, seriously, a form of punishment. Yeah, I think it’s important to remember too, that, you know, it was often like an unintended consequence that children ended up getting harmed by immigration enforcement actions or the detention or deportation of their parents. And, you know, and there were reforms done and there were protections put in place to try to mitigate the harm against kids who were impacted by losing a parent to deportation, and to make sure that when ice was out in the community, when the enforcement actions were happening, that there were protections in place to make sure that kids didn’t witness things they didn’t need to see, or potentially not present when a parent was being arrested. There were protections put in place, but now we’re seeing ice literally go after kids themselves.

Selley Abebe  8:44  

And for me, I think that’s the biggest shift, you know, at least in how things are being executed now. And to that point, you know the Flores settlement, which is often cited in debates about children at the border and in custody. Can you explain what Flores was intended to do, and what protections it established for children and why it continues to shape today’s policy conversation.

Wendy Cervantes  9:07  

Yeah, well, Flores is a long standing decision that actually finally created really important a legal agreement around the types of conditions in which children can be held in government custody, and it was put in place to make sure that kids didn’t didn’t languish for long periods of time in detention facilities. Because we know how Research has consistently shown how there’s literally no amount of time that a child can spend in detention without experiencing some level of harm and and to create like basically minimum standards to ensure that children had adequate conditions, access to proper medical attention, nutritious food, access to a safe sleeping environment. It really created minimum standards and also ensured that children could not be held for longer than 20 days. I want to flag that now, under this administration, currently, is a. Actively seeking to do away with the Flores settlement, take away these very minimum standards, which we have, over time as advocates, been working to strengthen and improve, and we’re actually seeing, you know, violations of the Flores settlement, in particular, with those kids who are being held in family detention centers, many of whom have been there for months, including infants and toddlers.

Selley Abebe  10:22  

And right now there’s a measles outbreak, I believe, yeah, and I’ve heard that there’s also been protests inside of some of these centers.

Wendy Cervantes  10:29  

Yes, absolutely. I mean, I’ve been to a family detention center myself. There’s something really chilling about walking into a facility in a cafeteria and see like, rows of high chairs like lined up against a cafeteria wall, and we’re hearing about, I mean, a lot of medical experts have already said it’s just a matter of time based on the conditions in the facility in Dilley, Texas that we see a child die. I mean, we just keep hearing counts and accounts of like the lack of adequate medical care, the worms and molded food, foul smelling water that mothers have to use for their baby formula, and kids constantly with upset stomachs and severe diarrhea and vomiting. And now there’s a measles outbreak for people who have been snowed in like me over the past week. We all know how hard it is to, like, keep kids entertained. And, you know, just try to deal with kids without having access to education and recreational activities. And you know, there are kids that are being denied access to even crayons, so they’re basically just playing with rocks or things they can find, and even being reprimanded for doing that. So this is, it’s really heartbreaking. We had finally seen an end to family detention in this country, and now, not only has it been revived, but we’re seeing now that we have so much additional funding for detention to expand. We know that the administration is considering opening several new facilities, including potentially using warehouses to hold up to 5000 or more families over the next few months.

Selley Abebe  12:02  

Wow, wow. There were certain places, right, like schools, churches, child care centers, hospitals were treated really as sensitive locations. And can you talk a little bit more around what the reasoning behind those boundaries were, and also the shift in these changes now, what does that do to a child’s development and their health?

Wendy Cervantes  12:27  

Yeah, I mean, we were expecting this. We were expecting the administration to take away this protection, and they did on day one. It’s one of our longest policies that we’ve had, at least since ice existed, or even before ice existed, for more than 30 years. There has been a policy in place to restrict ICE agents, immigration enforcement agents, from going into places such as schools, hospitals and places of worship. And that was, you know, had bipartisan support. It existed under the first Trump administration. It existed across various Republican and Democratic administrations, the most expansive version of it was under the Biden administration to include places like vaccination sites. And there was like, you know, bipartisan support for that, because there was a sense that, like, immigration enforcement should not get in the way of children and families being able to carry out, you know, basic essential activities. And without that protection in place that was rescinded on day one, it was replaced with a new policy that basically asks for ICE agents to use their best judgment. And we have seen what has happened as a result of that, and we’re concerned about seeing more actions in places like schools and childcare centers. We’ve already seen you know, child care workers arrested. We’ve seen parents arrested outside schools. Previous policy was very specific about making sure that areas around these places were protected, because obviously, you know, school parking lot is an area that’s also important to keep safe, because parents need to drop off their kids and and we’re seeing what’s happening around the country, because ice is watching, and that’s why people are doing a lot of work to alert each other when they see ice in the community, so that parents can, you know, be prepared to not show up or to call someone else to pick up their kids. And schools and child care centers are also having to take extra steps now to prepare and have plans in place for making sure that kids get home safely.

Selley Abebe  14:22  

We’re going to pause here for a moment when we come back, Wendy helps us understand all that this means for kids, how fear shows up in classrooms, in friendships and inside families trying to hold it together.

Selley Abebe  14:36  

Welcome back, ambassadors before the break, Wendy talked us through how immigration enforcement has moved into places that were once considered safe, places like schools, child care centers, even hospitals. Wendy when kids see these enforcement events happening, what does that do to their sense of safety and belonging and basic trust in. You know, both for children of immigrants and for every child watching this unfold. You know, I think working at first focus, and we were colleagues for a bit, and I, you know, I thoroughly enjoyed our time together. But you know, first focus, as you know, first focus on children. We really do serve as a bipartisan child advocacy organization, and while bipartisanship doesn’t look the way it used to, I’m still increasingly convinced that it’s going to take everybody to look at this issue, because it is so complicated. And looking at the past decade around policies and public narratives, what changes in terms of policy choices and again, like broader narratives that have shifted most significantly change daily life for children of immigrants and mixed status families like both positively and negatively from your perspective.

Wendy Cervantes  15:57  

yeah, that’s a really interesting question, and something I’ve been thinking about a lot, especially as I think about, how did we get here? How did we get to this place? There’s a lot of factors. I think there is the fact that we’re becoming an increasingly minority majority country, where we’re seeing, as we mentioned, we talked about earlier, children of immigrants are one in four of all children in the US. We know that the child population is primarily going to be one that represents communities of color in the near future, and I think that has something to do with it. I think the fact that our we’re now having power, and we continue to see these kind of xenophobic narratives being used to, like influence elections and other things, and to drive policy and to drive more resources for agencies like ice and CBP, I think I’ve seen over time, and I’ve participated in a lot of messaging research projects over the past few years, and there’s this narrative that there’s also this, like scarcity mindset, that there just isn’t enough for everyone here. I’ve seen this play out when we look at things even like the right to have access to a public K to 12 education regardless of immigration status. That is something that is based in a Supreme Court ruling from 1982 the Plyler V Doe case, that establishes that all children, regardless of immigration status or their parents status, are able to access a basic K to 12 education in messaging research, because there have been challenges to that decision and at the state level over the years, in message testing around that, specifically amongst people of all classes and backgrounds and races, there was this like constant belief that there just wasn’t enough resources for schools to be able to meet the needs of all kids, and there was this sense of, like my kids versus their kids, even amongst you know, families who maybe had immigrant backgrounds themselves. And I think that the other side has done a really good job of leading us to believe that there isn’t enough resources for our kids when we know that there is, that it’s all about how you who you prioritize when you’re you know, creating a budget for the country. Well, one thing is also to keep in mind that the percentage of immigrant kids, or children of immigrants, in particular, kids that maybe don’t have status, is like less than 1% so at the end of the day, what we really need is for schools to be adequately resourced in order to meet the needs of all the kids that they’re serving, and that we shouldn’t be fooled into this like false idea that we have to actually pick and choose which kids in this country deserve the ability to thrive, the ability to go to school, to access healthcare, to access food. But I do think that over the years, we have seen the scarcity mindset be used against kids. We’ve seen this growing fear around the changing demographics of our country to be used against our kids and against immigrants, and the result is actually what we’re seeing today play out in real time through this extreme targeting of immigrant families, both through immigration enforcement, but also not only targeting families who might be vulnerable, who might have someone who’s undocumented, so might have a parent or someone deported from the country, but also chipping away at their access to health care, to things like the Child Tax Credit, to food, to even a basic K to 12 education.

Selley Abebe  19:22  

And, you know, it’s always remarkable to me. And I think the last year, it’s been quite clear how powerful fear and hate messaging is. It just in terms of triggering emotions that may feel genuine and dehumanizing it. And so for this conversation, I mean, really, my hope is that people can understand that these are actual kids and human beings. And also, you know, when we think through, how does fear of ice activity at schools affect attendance, learning and a child’s sense of trust? And belonging, both for children of immigrants, but then also for the other children, the others, you know, 75% that are looking at this unfold from a child’s perspective. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Wendy Cervantes  20:13  

I mean, this, this really hits close to home for me. I mean, I’m a mother too, just like you. I’m married to an immigrant. So technically, my two daughters are daughters of an immigrant, and my seven year old has asked me some really hard questions. Lately. She’s asked me if one of her father is okay, is ice going to come after him? Is he safe? He’s a US citizen, so technically, he’s safe. Does that mean he can be targeted potentially because of what he looks like? Yes, absolutely, and because of his accent, you know, but I think that’s like, an important example of like, kids don’t understand the nuances of immigration policy. They know that their parents look like the parents that are being rounded up, you know, around them on TV, maybe, maybe they even witnessed it in person. And my kids also asking me questions about, like, whether it’s bad to be Latino, because she’s heard that it’s bad to have Latino background after all these years that I’ve worked to establish, you know, her pride and her Mexican and Guatemalan roots, and so she’s a good example of my own daughter, of how you know the messages that kids are getting, and how this is impacting not only kids who truly do have to fear day to day, or maybe have already had a parent ripped away right before their eyes, but we’re also it’s also impacting kids who have immigrant background, whose parents may be immigrants, but even if they’re here lawfully. It’s creating confusion, and it’s really impacting a generation of kids, like their sense of who they are, their sense of pride and their sense of identity. And I think it’s like the, you know, the ice activity around schools and places where all children are, I think is a threat to everyone. Nobody wants their kids to go to school. And even if you don’t have any immigration issues, don’t look like an immigrant kids and immigrant families. They’re the Friends of the, you know, the soccer mom who has, you know, maybe been here for generations. And I think that’s also why we’re seeing communities really rise up, and non immigrant parents really show up in solidarity to, like, help walk kids to school. Keep an eye on, you know, the walking routes and the drop off routes. It’s why parents are showing up to deliver food to families who are too afraid to leave their homes, to offer to take kids to school. And I think in some of the darkest moments like those, are some of the most inspiring moments to me, too, to see teachers and community members and other parents who aren’t immigrants themselves, really showing up and recognizing that, you know, this isn’t what they want their kids to see either, and they understand that, you know, immigrants are part of our community, and they’re part of our schools, you know, our parishes, or whatever it is. And I think that has been, I think, really inspiring to see unfold across the country.

Selley Abebe  23:02  

Yeah. I mean, I think it’s hard for a lot of parents. I know I have a girlfriend that lives in LA and her son came home one day and his best friend wasn’t there anymore, or one of his friends wasn’t there anymore, and that’s a hard conversation to have with your child. So for parents and caregivers trying to protect their children while also staying informed. What guidance Do you or can you share about them, knowing their rights, keeping kids engaged in school and creating, you know, safe plans and places without also alarming and terrifying their children? Yeah.

Wendy Cervantes  23:40  

I mean, this is hard, in particular when we’re providing guidance to parents who are at risk of deportation. And there’s been great work done around the country to help parents make their plans for if they end up getting deported, about what happens to their kids, what happens to their assets. I mean, there’s really heartbreaking decisions being made though. You know, we’ve been doing a research study, and we’ve talked to families across the country in six states, primarily parents with young children. And one mom, for example, is deciding to basically split up her four kids so that it’s not too much of a burden on the families that she’s asking to care for them, to leave two kids with one family and two kids with the other, making sure one of the oldest ones is with one of the youngest. And that’s just really heartbreaking. And families are making really hard decisions about whether to bring kids back with them, depending on conditions in the country, or leave them here. And for a lot of cases, they’re making different decisions for different kids. For some moms, they’re going to take their youngest kids with them and maybe leave some of their older kids here because they want to. They’re so close to finishing high school, and that’s devastating. I mean, imagine, you know your high school graduation, and your parents aren’t there, and you might be the first one in your family to graduate. It’s really, really hard, and when I talk to these moms, we’re often crying together because. I can totally feel their pain, and I can’t believe they have to make these decisions. But what’s even more terrifying now is that there’s been great work to help parents make their plans, but we actually can’t guarantee that their plans are going to be fulfilled. There is a directive in place that ice is supposed to follow to allow parents to make decisions. It was actually updated and kept in place by this administration, and is supposed to allow parents to make decisions from the point that they’re arrested to the point that they’re removed. And we’re seeing case after case and hearing about parents after deportation that are now trying to reunify with their kids that they wanted to take with them. This is a huge problem, so we provide guidance to make a plan. We also have a great mental health resource and toolkit. It’s called a love letter to immigrant parents that was really put together by some child development and mental health experts that helps support parents and the number one thing that they asked us throughout the year, which is, how do I talk to my kids about deportation? But it also talks about how to take care of their own mental health, because kids feel their parents own stress. And while it can may seem impossible in this moment, it’s good for both parents and kids to just take the moments to still have joy, yeah, and to play together and to, you know, still cherish their time together. It helps bring some normalcy and some routine to their kids lives, and it’s also good for the parents. Whenever we ask parents, or maybe who have already lost a spouse to deportation, or who are living in fear, we ask them like, what brings them joy and what brings them hope? And it’s always something that they did that week with their kids or something that they’re looking forward to with their kids. And so it’s just, it’s just a really hard time, because it’s, it’s a very scary time. But I’m really glad that we have this toolkit, because it also provides guidance for how to talk to kids across different age ranges and and also how to talk to kids who maybe have disabilities.

Selley Abebe  26:58  

I knew I was going to cry talking to you, Wendy, I just knew it. But those are heartbreaking stories, and the point of this conversation again, is to inject the humanity. You know. I think any mom, any parent, any caregiver, any grandparent, should be able to empathize with these stories, you know. But through your work with the children thrive Action Network, you’ve helped articulate a vision for immigration policy really grounded in a child’s best interest. If we truly center kids, what would a child centered immigration system actually look like?

Wendy Cervantes  27:38  

Yeah, that’s the vision. I do think it’s actually more possible than people think it is. It’s always been something that’s very doable and something that, I think when people understand like, what we need to do, it’s really very common sense. So it’s almost seems silly to have to say it. A child centered immigration system would be one that really considers the best interest of children whenever there’s a decision that may impact them, and that includes like whether a parent can enter the US or whether they’re removed from the country. Is that in the best interest of the child that is, you know, here, and needs that parent making sure that every child, regardless of their immigration status or their parents status, can access the resources they need, have access to health care and and food assistance, things like the Child Tax Credit, especially if they’re a US citizen. So making sure also that all the systems that intersect with the immigration system because of our, you know, really strict immigrant eligibility rules that even keep us citizens from accessing certain programs, there would be no restrictions. It would just be all children can access what they need to be able to thrive, and also it’s a system that treats kids like kids. There are a lot of kids and who have come to the US on their own or here without a parent or guardian, who are navigating the legal immigration system on their own, so making sure those kids have an advocate and legal counsel to help them navigate that system, in particular, because so many of those kids are here and have valid claims to asylum or some sort of immigration relief. And then, I think, right now, very urgently, what some things that we that need to happen now in this current context, is to get ice and CBP out of our communities, and to stop funding ice and until there’s some real guardrails put in place to ensure that we are truly not hurting kids and families and separating them, and to really rein in the violence and terror that we’re seeing in communities around the country. I don’t think that’s any exaggeration to say that there has been no regard for children and the types of ice actions that we’ve seen taken around the country. And it’s not just impacting children and immigrant families, it’s impacting families that just happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, like the band full of kids in Minnesota that got tier. Gassed and a six month old had to be taken to the hospital because they stopped breathing. They just happened to be driving in the wrong place at the wrong time. And then we need we need family detention to be ended permanently, never to be taken away. We need to make sure that things like the Flores settlement are protected and even strengthened and expanded. We need to restore things like the sensitive locations policy, which has something that’s had long term bipartisan support. There is no need for ICE agents to be in schools or child care centers or hospitals or places of worship, and we ultimately also need to just make sure that kids have basic protections and rights so kids who are navigating the legal immigration system that they have a lawyer by their side, a four year old should not be defending themselves before an immigration judge. They can’t even read yet, much less defend themselves in immigration court. And we need to be making sure that we’re thinking about the impact on kids and risk and make sure that immigration enforcement is not unnecessarily targeting parents who are living in the countries, who have been here for years, who are working, who are working towards getting some sort of lawful status. All of the families in Dilley had asylum cases. Were not here without documentation. They had an asylum case in the works. You know, when there’s decisions about whether or not to use our taxpayer dollars to deport someone or to keep them in detention for months. We do not need to be putting parents in immigration detention. They should be allowed to stay in the community with their kids until the outcome of their immigration case is resolved. Just not a good use of taxpayer dollars to be keeping parents behind bars or separating them unnecessarily from their kids.

Selley Abebe  31:47  

That was really helpful Wendy and you know, for listeners that want to help but really don’t know where to start, what is one concrete action they can take this week, this month? You know, for children of immigrants and mixed status families.

Wendy Cervantes  32:04  

well, one thing folks can do is call their senator and tell them to make sure that ice and CBP do not get any more money until there are protections in place to ensure that they are not terrorizing communities. That’s one action that would go a really long way as this is something that’s moving through the Senate right now. You know, for people who want to do something, maybe even with their family members or with their friends, this is some this is something I’m going to be doing with my kids and in the next week or so, the end family detention campaign is actually hosting, is holding this activity where people are creating paper dolls, and they’re going to be sent to Congress, and it’s in unity with the kids who are in the family detention center in Dilley. And so kids can make these paper dolls, and it’s basically a paper doll campaign, and these will be sent to members of Congress and other critical policy makers and in an effort to call for an end to family detention and to free all the kids.

Selley Abebe  33:06  

Oh, I love that. So Wendy, thank you for being here. I know this topic and this issue is, you know you’ve been dedicated for decades, and it’s so important what you do, but I know it’s not easy, and so if you’ve listened to the podcast, you know, we end the show by asking our guests when things get heavy, you know, what album, what song, what do they turn to, to just lift their spirits and inject that joy? Because I believe that joy and love are the best counter to what we’re seeing right now. And so with that, what jam do you have for us?

Wendy Cervantes  33:47  

Well, it’s not a jam. It’s a song that I actually like to sing with my kids. It’s actually a traditional Mexican folk song called the colores, and it’s just a great song to sing with kids. It’s also was used quite a bit in the farm worker labor movement at the end of like, organizing meetings to rally people together. And it’s just a beautiful song about rainbows and colors and unity and community. So yeah, it’s one of my favorites.

Selley Abebe  34:17  

I love that, and I don’t think we have a children’s song to date on this, like budding evolving playlist. So I love that. I will check it out for my kids, and I’m going to learn more about the paper doll, because that would be an awesome project for for the kids and I to do, yeah, yeah. I’m looking forward to it too. Yeah. Thank you so much.

Wendy Cervantes  34:35  

Wendy, thank you, Selley.

Selley Abebe  34:39  

What stays with me is this reminder that these aren’t abstract policy debates. These are children going to school afraid. These are parents having to make impossible choices. These are families trying to hold on to some sense of normal while the ground keeps shifting beneath them and the cities around them. Explode with an emotionally charged mix of compassion, fear and violence to our listeners, one thing we want you to do, more than share this podcast, and even more than rate or review, we want you to learn your rights. We want you to talk to your children, check in on families in your community, and if you’re able take one small action this week, whether that’s calling your Senator, sharing accurate information or joining efforts to end family detention. Speaking of kids, is a podcast by First Focus on Children. It’s produced by wind Haven productions and blue jay Atlantic. Elizabeth Windom is the supervising producer. Julia Windom is the editor. Jay Woodward is the Senior Producer. For more information about this episode, visit first focus.org.