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In this episode, Messellech “Selley” Abebe chats with Maria Davis-Pierre and Cheryl Poe to explore what it means to be a culturally responsive advocate for Black neurodivergent children. Both mothers and passionate advocates, Davis-Pierre is a Licensed Mental Health Counselor and the President & CEO of Autism in Black INC, and Poe, who holds an M.A. in Urban Education and Counseling, is the Founder and Executive Director of Advocating 4 Kids, Inc. Together, they discuss the challenges that Black families face in education and health care, the emotional toll of advocacy, and how they transformed their frustration into a movement — creating spaces where parents, professionals, and advocates can connect, stay informed, and feel empowered. 

To learn more about Maria Davis-Pierre’s work, visit the Autism in Black website, or follow them on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube. To learn more about Cherly Poe’s work, visit the Advocating 4 Kids website, or follow them on Instagram and Facebook.

Want to keep digging into the real-life impact policy decisions have on children? Here’s some of what First Focus on Children has published recently:

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Transcript

Speaker 1  0:04  

It’s definitely about being responsive to the cultural needs, not just of that individual family, but as a society, the way society sees our black children in our public school systems. We got to be aware of that, and we have to put protections in to save our babies because times are hard.

Selley Abebe  0:27  

On today’s Speaking of Kids, what happens when moms have to go toe to toe with reluctant doctors and educators? Especially when their kids’ educational, developmental, or medical needs are on the line. Have you ever walked out of a school meeting thinking, did they even hear me? Like you showed up, were prepared, you’re passionate, and still somehow you walked away feeling empty handed. Hey, ambassadors, it’s Selley. If you ever felt like the only one in the room fighting for your child, this episode is especially for you. Today I’m talking to two moms who turned that frustration into a movement. Maria Davis-Pierre and Cheryl Poe are fierce advocates, brilliant professionals, and mothers raising black, neurodivergent children inside systems that weren’t designed for any of that. They’ve built spaces, both online and in person, where parents don’t have to explain everything, where educators can finally listen and where lived experience drives the work. Let me be clear. I do this for a living. And it still, in some moments, feels like a huge mental load to try to coordinate all the different players and pieces that are involved in your child’s life. And this could look like pediatricians, it could be your teachers, it could be different educators, it could be the administration of schools, but it’s still a lot to coordinate when thinking through IEP plans or plans that are designed for kids with special needs. To get everybody in sync so they’re all operating from one band, one sound to support your kid, that’s critical. And when these systems don’t work and people are not listening to you, things can blow up really quickly. It’s for that reason I reached out to these two amazing mothers I know, who also happen to be fierce advocates in their own right. Maria Davis-Pierre and Cheryl Poe. Maria is the founder of Autism in Black and a mother of three, and Cheryl is the founder of Advocate 4 Kids and a mother of two. Welcome Maria and Cheryl. I’m so happy to have you here today. Thank you for

Maria Davis-Pierre  2:53  

Thank you for having us. 

Cheryl Poe  2:55

Yes, I’m excited to be here also.

Selley Abebe  2:56  

Maria, I want to start with you. You know, what led you to create Autism in Black? 

Maria Davis-Pierre  3:03  

I think it was more of a necessity from my own selfish reasons. I really was craving community and connection that acknowledged the intersectionality of being a black parent raising a child with a disability. At that time, I did not know I was autistic myself when we started Autism in Black, but I really craved having other parents that I knew were going through what we were experiencing. So it only felt natural to create what we wanted. 

Selley Abebe  3:37

That sounds like exactly what a mother would do. It’s when you’re in need, and if you can’t find it, you will create it for you and your children. And so I love that. And you know, Cheryl, could you share with our audience what inspired you to establish Advocating 4 Kids? 

Cheryl Poe  3:53  

The same reason. I’m a little bit different. I knew I had disabilities before. Early on, I remember receiving special education services, having an IEP, growing up in high school, middle school, things like that. My diagnosis of ADHD, though, did not come until I was in college. So from college on, you kind of like, forget about, oh yeah, I have these disabilities, but you don’t think about them as much until you have children. I got married and had a son who is on the spectrum, and I was just really devastated and disappointed in the lack of representation in the advocacy world. Meaning, I could not find one black advocate in all of the seven cities for which I had access to at that time. And the white advocates that were out there, their lens was not similar to my lens, so there oftentimes things were missed in the advocacy IEP process. So out of a necessity of wanting to make sure that my black male son with a disability would graduate from high school and have opportunities equal to that if he didn’t have a disability, it was my job to create the space and learn everything I could learn about my rights, his rights, and then how to use those rights to effectively advocate for appropriate supports and services.

Selley Abebe 5:26  

What’s so powerful about what both of you said is, in our world, there’s a lot of jargon that gets thrown around. And I know in my space, the term cultural competency always kind of comes up in different spaces, whether it be in the early childhood space, education space, child welfare space. And now, there’s been a real movement to really be inclusive, and I agree with this, of lived experts. And so you both sit at such a unique intersection of being experts, advocates and moms. When you hear the term cultural competency, how do all of those hats show up in the way that you both advocate for yourselves, for your children and also for, in the nature of the work that you do? Maria, we can start with you.

Maria Davis-Pierre  6:19  

So for me, I use a different term because I do not believe in cultural competence. I’m a black woman. I will never be competent in all things black women, because we are all so different. I believe in being cultural responsive. I believe in cultural humility, which takes the stance on learning about the culture of the individual you’re working with. I think for me, being a clinician, we are taught one class on cultural competence, and we’re expected to go out and to serve our clients and be like, oh, I know everything about this client, I know what they’re going to do, I am the professional, it doesn’t matter. But being on that intersection of being a person with a disability, having ADHD, being autistic, raising children who have disabilities, and also being that clinician, I understand that I may be the expert in the tools that I’ve learned, but they are most certainly the expert in their lives. So I have to come from the standpoint of learning about said individual, and learning about their culture, and learning that even though this may be a black family, that black family may be different from the Pierre household, so I need to approach them differently. So I take it in the approach of learning about whoever I’m working with and understanding their values, and understanding what’s important to them. Because if I don’t understand that, how am I going to be able to help them? And I think the approach overall with professionals is that we know the best, and you should listen to us rather than listening to the families that you’re working with.

Selley Abebe 1  8:01  

Cheryl, what’s your take on this? 

Cheryl Poe  8:03

I wholeheartedly agree. I use the term culturally responsive. And it’s interesting, because in my world, my master’s, my additional post grad work was around urban education. Which so there was a sense of recognizing differences, recognizing more than just the white experience and education, right? But then from the flip side of it, when you get into actually having to maneuver in those spaces, right, in very white spaces, because public schools are. You know, the systems are developed with a white lens, even if it’s a predominantly black school district. The way that it’s structured is still around not the experiences, not the voices, not the culture of Black Folk, it’s a white folk. So for me, being culturally responsive in my services are a little bit different than Maria’s, because I’m not, I don’t do the therapy. I do actual advocacy work. So when I’m sitting in an IEP meeting with a black family and everybody else is white in that room, I am making sure that they’re responsive to the needs of that particular family at that time, and some of them around just blackness overall. Or I don’t want to say generalized, but you know, some common themes when black families of neurodivergent families are interacting with white IEP teams, white school administrators, is this misconception that black families don’t care about their children. You know, so breaking that myth. Myths about how we view education or like what it’s okay for you to say and do to my child, that’s not appropriate in my household. Being very, very, very clear when we’re looking at developing IEP goals, accommodations. That I’m making sure that the lens is that of this black family that I’m sitting with, or Hispanic family, if it’s a hispanic family. But I focus on black. So I focus on the center of everything in blackness. And it’s about confronting. For me, confronting when the other members aren’t doing that. An example I had today. Adorable, adorable little black boy. Five. Leaving preschool to go into kindergarten, and he’s on the spectrum, and he likes to hug. He’ll come up to somebody and just hug them. So we’re at the IEP meeting, and the teachers who happen to be all white, everybody on the team’s white, except for me and the family. Oh, he’s so sweet. That’s just so kind. He’s just so loving. But dad was like, hold up. Now that’s cute, but that’s not gonna be cute next, possibly next year, right? A year difference. Because this is a black little boy hugging little white girls, because they go to a predominantly white school. That can switch real quick. So for me, the cultural responsiveness is, okay, y’all might think this is cute now, but we need to teach boundaries. We need to teach you, we need to ask and get consent before you hug. And unfortunately, of course, some people say, Well, I would do that even if my child wasn’t black. But as a black male, little, little boy, that’s extremely important, because the consequences that he could face because of his blackness, along with his disability, are so much greater. Right? So it’s definitely about being responsive to the cultural needs, not just of that individual family, but as society. The way society sees our black children in our public school systems. We got to be aware of that, and we have to put protections in to save our babies, because times are hard, right? Yeah.

Selley Abebe  11:44  

Yeah, you know. And I appreciate that example, because it’s a really good one. And I think one that, in some cases, can start off with really good intentions.

Cheryl Poe  11:55

Yes, yes.  

Selley Abebe  11:55

Because I know the reverse too in some situations, is the labels. And like, you know, it’s okay to be labeled, but you want it to be a correct label. And so when it comes to IEP meetings and kind of really getting the language around, if it’s behavior, making sure it, you know, how is it being classified? And all those nuances, as parents, you may not think are a big deal, but when it’s documented and it’s written, and if you’re going to, you know, these meetings feeling overwhelmed and intimidated, not everyone has access to pull a Maria and a Cheryl along with them to these meetings. And so, that example is really helpful, I think, to a lot of our listeners too, and our educators. You know, again, that that may mean well, but for a lot of our younger kids, you need to kind of be aware of what are the long term ramifications for some of these outcomes. 

Cheryl Poe  12:46

Yes, yes.

Selley Abebe  12:47

Yeah. And to that point, autism has been a real focal point recently in federal policy discussions in DC, in case, I think both you guys are probably monitoring this a little closely. And I really want our listeners, our ambassadors, to understand how federal policy really does impact how our children can access and receive care and services. You know, I know two big ones that folks may be aware of that are listening, are IDEA, which is really an education rooted law. And more recently, Autism Cares, which is more rooted in public health and research. What are you seeing both at a federal level or state side? I know Cheryl, you’re based in Virginia. Maria, you’re based in Florida. How do you see policy intersect with real life? In this case, Cheryl, we can start with you, and then Maria, we’ll come to you.

Cheryl Poe  13:45  

Yeah, this is such troubling unknown times for parents and advocates, both nationally, local, state, as it relates to sped ed services, because of, of our administrator who likes to write these executive orders. So one of the first things I like to say, an executive order is not a law. Right? And money is controlled by Congress. So IDEA, the money that is attached to that, that that we’re hearing concerns about, as far as how he wants to change that, it has to be something that Congress agrees to. So one of the things that I want everybody listening to make sure in your state, you are really voting for people that support and believe, that special education services are important to our, to our students, and that the funding needs to stay the same. So one of the big things that I’m hearing a lot about is how the President wants to remove the idea that, the funding that comes from the federal government to our states to implement IDA are right now attached to the regulatory language, right? So if you’re in Maine, Virginia, Florida, wherever you are, in order to receive idea funds. Individuals with disabilities, Education Act funds, you are actually signing a contract, saying that I will implement the regulations, the rights, the protections that are in this bill. Right? That’s, that’s how it is now. Our current president wants to remove that and make it block grants that then aren’t attached unnecessarily to any regulatory requirements. That would cause so much harm in the disability community, because school districts already have some difficulties with implementing IDEA and making sure kids have access to a free and appropriate education, making sure that parents are well aware of their rights to request supports, related services, speech, OT all those good things. And if you go to these block grants, then there’s no requirement of the states to implement the regulatory language and practices that are protecting our students right now. So there’s a fear around not even just the money the funding. Will the funding be there to implement the IDA services? How will the funding be provided to our states to get down to our communities? Will parents still have protections, where they have to be a part of the IEP team, where they have to give signature before the school districts can take certain actions. There’s just so many unanswered questions. And that’s just IDEA. We forgot about section 504. There’s like seven states. Florida, I don’t know if you were one of them, but I know Georgia for sure, where the Attorney Generals for those states petitioned and said that 504 section, 504 is unconstitutional, so they want to get rid of that. So parents were scared. Advocates such as myself and Maria were just trying to stay informed and keep our community informed. But then also give them information about, this is what you need to do to protect these rights that you have now that you may not have in 2020 and I’ll say 2027 because I think funding, the funding period from the federal government, has been done for the 25-26 school year. So I think families are pretty safe right now. But they really need to be paying attention to what’s gonna happen to that funding source after that, because we just don’t know.

Selley Abebe  17:35  

Maria, is there anything that you’d like to add?

Maria Davis-Pierre  17:37

Sure. I think on the autism and black side, the concerns the more of the research side, especially with the Director of Health and Human Services having such a focal point on autism, and when the focal point is such harmful rhetoric about autism and who we are as individuals, and how he even views us, and now his policies that are being enacted to go back and look into the cause of autism, and spreading the rhetoric that MMR vaccinations are at the root cause, and in bringing up things that have been debunked, that have been researched over and over and over and over again, and placing that funding back into that rather than funding on supports for families, rather than support for autistic adults, is where the concern is. For a lot of families. When someone is on a platform and they’re talking about you in such a way, the concern is, then, what will the gaps be two years from now? What will the gaps be three years from now, when it comes to black autistic individuals? We are already not getting the diagnosis in the manner that we should. Is this going to now change how we have to diagnose right? Is Medicaid has been, up it, I think it’s on the floor every year. When it comes to Congress and things like that. So what does it mean for my child getting the services that they need right? And if the actual diagnosis procedures are now harder for my child to get that medical diagnosis, what am I getting covered at this point? So I think right now, there’s just a lot of worry and concern around, should I get the diagnosis? Should it be documented? If it’s documented, what does that mean? Am I placed on a directory? Is he sending me to this farm that he’s talking about? Are my Medicaid benefits going to be cut? In Florida, Medicaid has such fraudulent activities every year that, they it’s just cut sometimes. And then you wake up, and now I don’t have ABA anymore. My child is now placed back on a list three months from now. Now, I got to get a new therapist. So there is so much instability when it comes to somebody who is now looking at you in a different way, that that is the concern for parents. What does this mean for my child? What does this mean for their therapy? What does this mean for me trying to get services? What does this mean for them aging out and becoming adult during this federal administration? So I think it’s a lot of scary times. I’m scared myself as an individual who’s autistic. Is my name on a directory somewhere, and I don’t know, right? So I think now it’s just a lot of fear and uncertainty for parents and even children.

Selley Abebe  20:34  

Yeah, and I think that’s, you know, for everyone listening. I think that’s really what, what we’re trying to get across, like both with this conversation, but just then, the broader podcast is policies really do shape our lives. And it can be designed to make it easier, or it can be designed to make it a little bit more confusing and difficult. And just to be clear, these changes that both of you outlined, these are not just exclusive to changes that are going to impact black and brown communities. This is impacting everybody across the board. 

Selley Abebe  21:11

All right, let’s take a breather. And when we come back, we hear how Cheryl and Maria are keeping their communities informed, building power together and still finding time for naps, gardening and a little DMX. Stick around. 

Selley Abebe  21:29

Welcome back, ambassadors. We’re talking with Maria Davis-Pierre and Cheryl Poe about raising and advocating for black, neurodivergent children. And how they’re building the community they couldn’t find. I wanted to know how Cheryl and Maria actually do it. How they keep their communities informed, empowered and ready to speak up. Especially when just figuring out what’s happening, can feel like a full time job. You know, we talked a little bit about community. Both of you are steeped in directly into the community that these changes or potential changes, they’re really feeling it. I mean, how do you engage with, with your community to really empower parents, and caregivers, and educators to really advocate and even not even advocate before you can even advocate, you need to know what’s going on. And so even just to get people up to speed, like, how do you do that?

Maria Davis-Pierre  22:27  

Well, we do that in a multitude of ways. With Autism in Black we have our annual conference. And then we actually do have a Autism in Black community that we have for parents, professionals and disabled individuals to come in and, you know, have something that is off of these platforms and in a safe space. So where we can talk about, hey, this policy has just been enacted. What does that mean for us, right? Or, hey, we need to learn more about IDEA, or we need to learn about sped policies. Or I need to be able to understand this particular assessment so that I can go into the school and say, Well, this is what I’m reading. This is what they have scored, and this is what now I need, right? How do I have conversations with my doctor about what I need for supports as a autistic individual, right? As a professional, how should I be able to look at my biases, know that they’re coming with me in the room, and don’t let them impact how I am assessing this family or this client, right? So we have our Autism in Black community, that is just for that. Autism in Black is huge on community, because we know that we can’t do much of anything without each other. We need that support. I need to know that there’s other autistic adults that are late diagnosed out there who are going through it like I’m going through it. And they’re going to understand exactly what I’m going through without much explanation. Because the explanation of telling you what an IEP meeting is. The explanation of telling you that, hey, I just had to change medications. It can get tiring, but when you have individuals who automatically know, okay, I know what you’re going through, what do you need? Right? Without having to explain, that means a lot. So we really are rooted in community. Right now, more than ever, within Autism in Black. And we do that with our community, and we also do that with our annual conference as well.

Selley Abebe  24:29  

And just to highlight Maria, because I do think this is important, is while Autism in Black, from my understanding, from pictures I’ve seen, and you know, talking in conversation with you, is even though the focus is on autistic children and families that are black, the community itself is inclusive. So to your point, Cheryl, educators of all shades, they’re also looking to understand and to learn. And I think that’s a beautiful space to have for people you know to come, so you kind of get away from, it can be strategically well meaning, and it could be truly well meaning. Right, Cheryl? To the example that you gave earlier.

Cheryl Poe  25:11  

Yeah, I think that, that too. Though I’m centered in blackness when I talk about the services, because that intersectionality is so many barriers for us that if we don’t know what they are, how to get over them, our children are not going to get what they need to be successful in life. But you’re right. I think that white people, especially other white advocates, because that’s my role, that’s my lane. That we’re working with Black families, need to be attending these kinds of events, so that they are aware. So that they’re not causing harm. So that they can have extra skills when working with people that don’t look like them, because there’s a difference. I also want to kind of go back to your original question about, like, you know, how do we prepare the community for what’s going to happen, or for what information is happening. Some of the things as it relates to education, they’ve already happened. The executive order around discipline. How, no longer will we be looking at desperate impact. And that’s a huge issue in sped ed world, because, as we know, black students with disabilities are overrepresented in being suspended, and by him doing this piece of common sense, he’s calling it common sense discipline. It strips some of the protections that black neuro-divergents have. Like, of course, we still have the rights for the MDR and all of those good, good things. However, what he’s saying is that if black students with or without disabilities that are over representation in discipline is no longer a thing, and now he wants to look at how white kids are being discriminated against as it relates to discipline. Really, really, really, is a horrible narrative. And I’m doing things like having parents doing workshops, free workshops for parents, so that they can understand, okay, this is a trend that you’re going to be seeing that that happens. Because that’s also that attached to some of the school districts that are getting rid of diversity, equity and inclusion, that like or use restorative practices or peer mediation conflicts, around things that could normally just be considered a suspendable act, whether in school or out of school. Like working around it, so that we can fix the underlying issues. Programs like that are being removed now. Like so we’re giving information about not only about what it’s supposed, what’s going to happen later on, but these are policy changes that are happening now that are impacting our children. And it’s important to get information out. Doing podcasts like this, I think is a good way too, right? To make sure that families have information about this is what is happening. This is where we are. These are things you need to do. I am constantly posting on my Facebook page, Advocating 4 Kids on Facebook, go check us out. Always, you know, posting up some if there’s a new executive order that comes out, I do a lot of work with a lot of national, larger, much, big, huge disability kind of rights where they’re writing letters, or have the ability to actually sue the US Department of Education around different things. So I do as much as possible to keep the community informed that though it may not feel like it, or you may not know it because you’re not affiliated with all of these organizations that exist, because there’s a lot of them. There are people out here that are challenging some of this mess. There are people out here that we can access for information, resources, ideas on how to combat this. One of the biggest things is we have to do as a community now. We can’t sit back. We have to be speaking up to our elected officials about what we expect of them moving forward, especially around some of the nonsense that’s happening. They need to hear from us. That doesn’t mean you have to go out and, you know, go to school board meetings, even though I think that is a great place to go to voice concerns if they’re making policy changes. But I think it can be as simple as sending emails or letters or even calling your local elected official, your Senator, your congressman. And things that are changing in the laws that impact your child’s education, you need to be voicing concern. They have to start hearing from us. We’re also doing a project in which we’re almost, we’re, in fact, we’ve collected all the data. We’re just analyzing it now. It’s called advocating while black, and we were working with Dr. Catherine Wiley at Howard University, specifically in Virginia, just kind of looking at, what are some of those big barriers, right? That parents are facing so that we can take that information and give it to the community and say, Okay, we’ve done some research. These are just some of the issues that we’ve identified. Now we want to give you the resources, now that we understand what you’re saying you need. Now we want to target those, those issues and give you resources to overcome them. Because, you know the way that, where we are with public education right now, it is no longer a space where you can just send your kid to school and think that everything’s going to be wonderful. There’s a certain amount of advocacy that you’re going to want to do to protect your child, even if it’s something as simple as making sure that your child never makes a statement, never puts anything in writing, to administration, about anything discipline, unless you’re there and you’re a part of that conversation.

Selley Abebe  30:54  

It’s the basics. It starts with the basics. 

Cheryl Poe  30:56  

The basics, yup.

Selley Abebe  30:58

You know, we all know that advocacy can be emotionally draining and taxing. And again, you both do it wearing so many different hats. What is your advice, both for parents, educators? In terms of self care, to balance this all, because it is a lot, and in this window right now, information is coming fast as, a working, all of us are working moms trying to get dinner on the table. I’m still changing diapers. I don’t think any of you guys are. 

Cheryl Poe  31:34 

No, thank you. 

Selley Abebe  31:36

It’s not the life I was trying to potty train over the weekend, and it was, there’s. Right exactly. We’re still in diapers. But it can be a lot. And also there’s a lot of different requests of time. And so what is your advice to other parents, advocates, educators, in maintaining their, their well being and their mental health?

Maria Davis-Pierre  32:01  

I’m going to put on therapist hat right now and talk to the people. I am a firm believer of giving yourself grace. Progress over perfection. I think a lot of times that we are like, oh, I need to do this. I need to do this. I have to do this. And especially for black mothers, like the way that society states that we have to show up and how we have to carry the load and how we have to be all, do all, all the time. It is exhausting. It is tiring. We have to be able to give ourselves grace. We have to be able to understand that we can ask for help. We have to be able to understand that no is a complete sentence, and I don’t need to offer you any kind of explanation behind that. My no means no, right? My boundaries are for me. I think they’re, you know, a lot of times when we think about setting boundaries, we’re like, oh, I’m setting these boundaries for these other people. No, they’re for yourself. They are protections for you. So if you are setting up boundaries, they need to be realistic for you and your follow through. So that individuals will respect them. I also think that we have to get away from the social media type of self care, where we see that, oh, you know, I can only do self care if I am taking a nice vacation somewhere and I’m on a beach with a nice drink. That is self care, but it is not realistic self care that you can have on the daily basis. You should be able to check in with yourself. Whether it be for five minutes. Whether it be for an hour or more. But check in, in with yourself daily. On, how am I feeling? How is my body responding? Did I drink enough water today? Did I actually eat today? We are oftentimes making sure our kids have three meals. Did you have three meals today, right? Did you, do you need a nap today, right? So being able to really be in tune with who you are. Listen, y’all, get my husband out here. He will tell you, I’ll put myself in timeout and be like I’m in a timeout. And I need that. I need to recharge. I need to rejuvenate. I may, you know, pull up in my car and not come in the house for 10 minutes, because I need to switch over from whatever I was doing to whatever’s going on in this house. But you have to be able to give yourself those check-ins daily, because you cannot pour from an empty cup. And I am a firm believer that I’m only giving people the excess of me. So, my cup needs to be overflowing so that I can go and help other people. Because if I’m constantly dipping into my own, at some point it’s nothing’s going to be in there, right? So I have to make sure that I’m constantly filling myself, so that I can show up in each of these roles.

Selley Abebe  34:51  

That was a word.

Cheryl Poe  34:53  

It was. Can I just say ditto? Even though I don’t do any of it. 

Selley Abebe  35:00  

I know, I know. I’m like, where’s my water bottle? 

Cheryl Poe  35:05  

I was like, mine’s right here. I haven’t sipped it all morning. For me, I like, I have a hobby.

I got a hobby. I like to garden, so. Anytime I can go out and plant something in there. So in the winter, I’m not as good. I’m calling Maria and saying, Maria, I think I need a nap. Is that okay?

You know, advocacy can be extremely hard. I mean, it really, really can. It takes a lot out of you, because you’re talking about children, especially young children’s lives, and you want them to thrive. So one of the things that I love to do is, when I do have success, I relish in that. I’m like, Ooh. I like, I really celebrate it. I celebrate successes when we have them. And that’s probably one way. And the only other way is when I like, and I do it mainly in the spring and the summer, which is I’ll take breaks between meetings and just go out in the yard, and get my hands in the dirt, and do something. But I, I’m not as good at self care as I need to be, and I’m working on that. So that’s part of the grace that I think you’re talking about, Maria, right? I recognize I need to do a little bit more, but I’m not going to stress about it. I’m not going to be like, oh, you know, this is what I need to do. I can talk about it. I’ve identified some things. And I’m just gonna continue to work on it. Like you said, progress, not perfection.

Maria Davis-Pierre  36:26

Exactly.

Selley Abebe  36:27  

Exactly. I love that. I love that. And to the point of the last question that I asked. You know, this can be hard. And so when you have to gear up for a big meeting or you just had a tough meeting, is there a go-to song or playlist that, that both of you turn to, that give you a little bit more energy or just get you hype? And we can start with Maria, and then we’ll end with you Cheryl.

Maria Davis-Pierre  36:52  

Mine is “Bigger” by Beyonce. That is kind of like my anthem, because I have to, you know, really sometimes go back to the fact that it is much bigger than me. Yes, I may a lot of times be advocating for my kids, but I am also advocating for those kids that are in the same classrooms or classrooms beyond whose parents may not have the resources that I have, right? Yes, I sit on this platform of Autism in Black, and I am so transparent because I know that a lot of individuals see themselves in me. So when it’s a hard day or somebody has been completely harmful to me, I need to sit back and understand that it is much bigger than me. And I need to go and have my self care, so that I can come back tomorrow and advocate in the way that I advocate for the individuals that are associated with Autism in Black. 

Selley Abebe  37:48  

I love that. 

Cheryl Poe  37:49

So I love music. So there’s, like, different songs or different artists from different moods. So like, like a pre mood, I like sounds of blackness because it’s like, uplifting. It’s like, Yeah, we’re gonna do this. We’re gonna take care of this. We got it, like. And then for afterwards, and the meeting didn’t go that well, I usually like some DMX, right? Some hard rap DMX, like. You know, I’ll sing that around a little bit. And then there’s this one song by Tweet, like, and it’s part of, like, celebrating the wins. And it’s called, “I was made for this”, or something like that. And I like that a lot, because it’s like, it helps ground me and reminds me of. Like okay, this is what you’re meant to do, because this is what you’ve been doing, and then you have the success. So it kind of like all feels good together. So yeah. I do use music to kind of like, help me get through some of this stuff. I

Selley Abebe  38:49  

I love that we now officially will have DMX on our playlist. I feel like that’s, of course, like, why wouldn’t you listen to him after.

Cheryl Poe  38:58  

Yeah, wish he was there with you at the meeting.

Selley Abebe  39:03  

Right, exactly. Bet it would have went well.

Cheryl Poe  39:06

Yeah. 

Maria Davis-Pierre  39:06

Exactly.

Selley Abebe  39:07

Well, thank you both so much for your time. For this conversation. It’s really an important one that I know that our listeners will get a lot out of. So thank you both so much.

Maria Davis-Pierre  39:16  

Thank you. 

Cheryl Poe  39:17

Thank you. Thank you. It was great being here.

Selley Abebe  39:21  

Wow. That conversation was a master class in showing up. With intention, with wisdom, with boundaries and with receipts. Maria and Cheryl reminded me that none of us were meant to do this alone. Whether you’re in the classroom, at a kitchen table, or in the middle of a policy fight, community changes everything. So if you’re a teacher, a parent, a provider, go follow them. Join the communities they’ve built. And share this episode with someone who needs to hear that they’re not imagining these barriers and they’re not alone. I’m Selley Abebe, thanks for showing up today. Speaking of kids, is a podcast by First Focus on Children. It’s produced by Windhaven Productions and Bluejay Atlantic. Elizabeth Windom is the supervising producer. Julia Windom is the editor. Jay Woodward is Senior Producer. For more information about this episode, visit firstfocus.org.