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In this episode, Messellech “Selley” Abebe chats with Mychal Threets about why every child deserves access to books, what it means when libraries are defunded, and how joy shows up—even on the hardest days. Threets is a literary advocate, former librarian, and the current Resident Librarian for PBS. Together, Abebe and Threets dive into the vital role libraries play in our communities, especially for children. This conversation explores the impact of book bans, the need for libraries to adapt to modern needs, and how they serve not just as spaces for learning, but as sanctuaries of safety, possibility, and belonging.

To learn more about Mychal Threets and his work, you can follow him on TikTok, Instagram, and Facebook. 

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Transcript

Mychal Threets  0:01  

I think we often forget that kids have opinions about banned books, because honestly, I learned lately in conversations with fifth graders, and fourth graders, and seventh graders, that they don’t often know that books are being banned because the grown ups, the teachers, aren’t able to talk with them about it. They’re not able to give reasons, and oftentimes they just remove the book without telling the kids.

Selley Abebe  0:20  

On this episode of Speaking of Kids, a joyful disruptor with the challenge out there for all the grown ups banning books. Go explain it to a fifth grader. 

Mychal Threets  0:29  

If you’re so adamant about wanting a book banned, you should be able to tell those kids exactly why. When they’re befuddled, when they’re still perplexed, I would hope that they would realize that perhaps they were incorrect, and maybe the book should just be banned for them, which is okay. Every book is not for everyone, but every book is for someone.

Selley Abebe  0:48  

Hey, ambassadors, I’m Messellech Abebe. Many call me Selley. Today, we are talking about something that brings back a lot of memories for me and maybe for you too. Public libraries. But not just books and story time. We’re diving into the deeper stuff today around joy, literacy, anxiety, advocacy, and why a library card might just be a superpower. Our guest today is Mychal Threets, former librarian, current PBS resident librarian, don’t worry, we’ll get into what that means in a little bit, and full time champion for library kids everywhere. You’ll hear Mychal explain why he believes every child deserves access to books, what it means when libraries are defunded, and how joy shows up even on the hardest days. This conversation gave me goose bumps, and it reminded me of the first time I took my own kids to the library. Growing up in an immigrant household, there were lots of rules and boundaries, but the library was one of the few places my parents were always okay with me going to, especially by myself. And for me as a kid, it was a place that I could go and meet up with friends and just be free. My parents viewed it as a safe space, and to a degree, so did I. I know that for many people listening, you may have not set foot in the library since college. I know there was a huge gap since the last time I went, and I just recently went back with my children, who were young, to get their first library card. And so talking to Mychal today was a real treat, because he reminded me, and hopefully it will remind all of us, what it was like to go to the library as a kid, and what it’s like for kids today to go to the library. And without further ado, Mychal Threets.

Selley Abebe  2:45  

Mychal, thank you so much for joining us today. 

Mychal Threets   2:48 

My pleasure. Thank you for inviting me. 

Selley Abebe  2:50  

So you know, I think let’s just kick things off with, can you explain to our audience what library Joy means to you?

Mychal Threets   2:56  

Library joy changes every single day for me. For today, I think a lot of it is that the library is happiness on your best day, on your worst day, on your medium sized day, always there for you. I think I first started talking about joy and libraries together, because I believe that joy is something that we can always seize, but it’s also something that we’re not always ready for. And that’s quite okay, because whenever you’re ready, if it’s a Tuesday, if it’s a Saturday, joy is there for you to seize. And I feel the same way about the library. Everyone’s not always ready to be a library kid, to be a library grown-up. People think, “I’m not a book reader”, “the library is not for me”, and they’re very wrong. The library is always for you. There’s always something there for you. But whenever you need the library, it’s there for you to seize. Libraries are even available now, 24/7 because of digital libraries. And I think that’s what library joy is for me, it’s a library always being there for you whenever you need it.

Selley Abebe  3:44  

I love that. And I have to say, I love your perspective on joy. You know, it often boils down to your perspective. So I really, really appreciate that about you. You know, I have young children, and over the years, one of my favorite trips to chaperone for them has always been their trip to the library. Typically, it takes place in kindergarten. So I’ve been on two trips so far, and I love to see these little kids getting so excited to take out books, to listen to story time. And I have to say, when I’ve been to the library recently, you know, I’m dating myself a little bit, but it looks very different than when I was growing up. You know, they have virtual and augmented reality experiences in some libraries, podcast studios. You know, it feels like the libraries have evolved significantly, and so, you know, for you, I just wanted to ask, can you share with our listeners how you’ve seen libraries adapt to meet really the rapid shifting interests of kids and technology nowadays? And how, in your experience, have libraries continued to keep these elements of wonder and marvel and joy for kids?

Mychal Threets  4:47  

Yeah, it’s so very interesting. I think it’s very funny what you said about how the library has changed so much. And I think I would argue the library probably doesn’t change in the way that it looks, in its appearance. because most libraries don’t have the budget to be able to Change the way the library looks. They don’t even have enough money in the funds for painting the library or things of that nature. So if you love the library, since you were a library kid, and you visit your local library today, it probably looks the same. But for this conversation, it has changed drastically in what it offers. So many people will come up to me, not so much anymore, but a lot of times they’ll still say, libraries are still a thing? They’re still relevant? and it’s like they’re absolutely still relevant, because they are changing. Now there’s more and more audio books. Libby is one of my favorite things to talk about, even though there’s things like Cloud Library and hoopla digital. Libby is very big on accessibility. They have just something called a dyslexic font. So if you’re reading ebooks through Libby, you can change the font make it easier to read. If you have dyslexia, there’s a way to change the audio speed if you’re listening to an audio book, some people listen at 2x speed, 3x speed, 4x speed. I don’t personally understand how they do it. I’m a one, 1.5 listener max, but there are superheroes who listen to it at 3x speed, and that’s just one thing that’s changed. But there’s so many more digital services. There’s so many ways for you to access the library at home. But as you were mentioning, there’s now maker spaces. So there’s 3d printers at the library. You can 3d print a key chain. You can 3d print so many different things. I’ve seen an unhoused person 3d print shoelaces because they didn’t have shoelaces and they wanted an easier way to keep their shoes tied at all times. There’s musical instruments at the library, there’s video game collections at the library, there’s board game collections at the library. There’s new movies, there’s new TV shows. You can, you can watch the first season of severance, you can watch seasons of Abbott elementary at your local library. And this is all just to stay relevant with the times and show people that there’s something for everybody. Library is always going to be the house of books, but there’s so, so much more at the local library. And I think this is also such a very interesting conversation, because libraries have had to adapt to the present times with the change of adults and grown ups, not so much kids. I believe that kids are always going to be able to be hooked. hooked at the library from preschool all the way to seventh, eighth grade. It just ingrained in them to seek curiosity, to discover their imagination, and that’s what the library represents in all those worlds. So kids always love stories. They love asking questions. They love learning new things. They love being their zany, unhinged selves, and that’s what the library does for them. But as they get older, as they think that the library that books become uncool, they have to figure out ways that they can go back to the local library, which is why it’s important that people like Steph Curry, like Malala, like LeBron James, Taylor Swift and Chappell Roan are supporting library people like Jennifer Garner and so many other people who are big library fans, and showing people that, hey, the library’s always been cool, but now we’re openly talking about it.

Selley Abebe  7:40  

And you know what, Mychal, I think what I heard you say is the library will always be inclusive no matter what your interests are, no matter what your developmental needs are, no matter what your actual real needs are, whether it be shoelaces, the library is for everyone. And I love that and, and I should actually go back and clarify the library did very much look and smell and kind of feel like worn in a little bit, like a warm blanket.

Mychal Threets  8:05  

Nostalgic smell, like this classic book fair catalog.

Selley Abebe  8:08

Exactly. But you hit it on the head. That’s how the public local libraries have kept their element of joy, and their elements of curiosity, and interest for kids at every stage, be it you know, young adults all the way to you know, adults as well. So you’ve recently transitioned from working at a library to being an advocate, and PBS’ resident librarian. Can you explain what that position entails?

Mychal Threets  8:34  

I honestly can’t. We’re still figuring it out. As far as I know, I am the first PBS resident librarian that there has ever been. A lot of it is thanks to social media and people who love the library and love that I talked about the library, they would constantly tag PBS and PBS Kids in my videos. They would tag me in PBS and PBS kid videos, and both of us had no idea what to do with the other we both were fascinated by the cause of support, but we just didn’t know how to help one another. And then they reached out to me, and I said, I I love PBS and PBS Kids. I was raised on PBS Kids. What we’ve done currently is, really is a social media series. So I share book recommendations, I share library stories, and I send them to PBS Kids social media team, and then they post the videos to their platforms, and they tag me, and I get to see myself with the PBS and PBS Kids name, and it’s just so very cool for a PBS person like myself. But this year, we’re hoping to make it a little bit different, where something that’s more specific to the collaboration and not just a continuation of what I do. but essentially the whole goal of the PBS resident librarian is for a librarian with degrees like myself, to support books and the mission of PBS and PBS Kids that public broadcast television is there so that everyone can enjoy and learn from, and just have more joyful parts of their day.

Selley Abebe  9:48  

Well, I can’t wait to see how this collaboration evolves, because it’s already pretty amazing.

Mychal Threets  9:54  

It’s so much fun. I got to talk with my good friend Arthur Reed, the Aardvark. I have Arthur’s library card tattooed on me. And just got, just gotten to do so many amazing things, but the best of it all is just to amplify and support librarians, library workers, and educators, and kids, and show them what they can be. 

Selley Abebe  10:10  

I love that, and such an example of when you follow your passion, you know, I bet you don’t even feel like you’re working some days.

Mychal Threets  10:15  

I mean, it is job, but not really, is it definitely more of a partnership between me and PBS Kids. I’m no longer a traditional librarian for mental health reasons, and I thought I was just going to have to be floundering trying to discover things. All of these things have happened. Much to my surprise, none of this was in the works when I left the library. I left the library solely thinking I had nothing to fall back on, and I’m just so grateful and blessed and honestly shocked. I don’t even think I ever dreamed that anything that I’ve gotten to do would happen for my life. As much as I love it, I often tell people that if I knew all this was going to happen, I don’t know if I would have honestly started talking about libraries on social media. But people always ask, “What would library kid you think”? I believe library kid me would be appalled at all of the things that I’ve done just because of anxiety and so much more. And just like, “What are you doing?”, “We say we’ll never do that”, “We can’t handle that well”.

Selley Abebe  11:03  

Well, when presented the opportunity, you kind of push through it. And again, you’re an example in that way. So I love that. You were also recently named TIME’s Next Generation of Leaders. And in your remarks, you noted that a real threat to libraries today is funding. And I don’t know how familiar you are with First Focus, but as an organization, we really work to prioritize and center children in federal policies and budget decisions, and so, you know, we always say money matters, no matter what you’re looking at, children’s health, education, in this case, libraries. And to offer context, libraries are funded by local, state and federal governments, in addition to typically, in some cases, they may do fundraising efforts and those fees and fines. I don’t know how that works now. But we know that political priorities at the state and local level will drive you know, a lot of these decisions. Funding from libraries primarily comes at from the local government level at around 60, 75% on average. And as someone that is passionate about community engagement and advocacy, what is your advice for library kids and library grown ups who want to see funding increase at their local libraries?

Mychal Threets  12:17  

First, I’m very I’m so very thankful to TIME Magazine to have chosen me as one of their next generation leaders upon actual next generation leaders like Ray and Simone, Manuel and so many others. It’s just such a cool, cool honor, not for myself, but more so for the people you just spoke about, the library kids, library grown ups. It shows them that the library is their future, and the library is a place where they can become whomever they want, to be the best version of themselves. And I think to answer your question about the advice I have for library people who want to see funding increased is to talk about the library like we’re doing right now. That’s the best way. Is to show is to show decision makers how important the library is, that we’re making it a part of every single conversation. We’re making literacy a focal point of what we want for our community, what we want for our children, and what we want to see in the future of education. We want them to have stories where they can see themselves in the pages, in the chapters. We want them to be encouraged to tell their own story, if we want them to write that story so that others can also follow in their footsteps and read that very stories. We all have such fond memories of story time, of the summer reading program, of visiting the library with our grown ups, and just being there, just picking out some of our very first books, befriending the local librarian, some of us paying fees and fines, like you had mentioned, and just what comes, what comes with that? I think just talking positively about the Library is where people from all walks of life get together. And I think that’s, that’s the way that we have to do it, to know, in order to increase funding, we have to give them no choice but to see not just the importance of the library, but how much we love the library, because there are so many things that are important to the community that we don’t necessarily love. We may respect it, but it’s not an actual love. I think you’d be hard pressed to find somebody who actually dislikes the library and can actually say that out loud, that I don’t like the library. Think, like, that’s what you have to do, is you just have to say, Do you or do you not? And when they say yes, it’s like, oh, well, then help us fund the library. And then that’s when you get into people getting library cards, telling their friends and family to get library cards, going to all the various programs, suggesting new things for the library, and just writing letters, posting about how much you love the library. And again, just word of mouth, just showing everybody the library, the library, the library. I think the more we talk about the more the people who are making the decisions will be like, You know what we listened this is what we can do. So it helps everybody to fund the library. But I think that’s what it takes in order for us to get the proper funding that libraries and library workers deserve.

Selley Abebe  14:35  

One of my favorite child advocacy slogans, I guess I don’t know, for lack of a better word, is, who’s for kids and who’s just kidding? And I just feel like that’s a real question. You also talk a lot about literacy. You’ve stated that everyone deserves access to books. We should all be celebrating the freedom to read, not banning books and removing access to books. You touched on it a little bit. It. But what do you think is at heart of of this fear, you know, of books being banned?

Mychal Threets  15:05  

I honestly have no idea what the fear is. I don’t even ever get to talk with people who actually talk about why they’re so afraid, why they want to have books removed. But I think if I if I had to narrow down from just like the reading that I’ve done, the research I’ve done, I think it’s just a fear of they think that books have an agenda. They think that books are trying to tell trying to tell their kids to hate themselves, to hate their past, especially for families with kids who are white. And I’ve never experienced that in talking at schools and talking at libraries. It’s far from the truth. I think they actually have far more empathy when they see books with kids of color, kids from various background, characters of people who are disabled, characters who are unhoused. They see these people all around them, and then they see them in books, and they’re like, yeah, they’re just people just like me. Now I can learn about them too. So often I would read picture books during story time, and I would be afraid of certain elements of how the kids would react. If it’s like a monster in the picture book going to eat the old lady, I’m like, Oh, how are the kids gonna react? And I read that part in storytime, the kids are just like, keep, keep on reading. What’s, what’s the rest of the story? Why are you pausing? Isn’t this just part of the story? Because they know that it’s a book. They know that something is going to happen, and they’re just ready for more. They have questions. They’re such deep thinkers. They look in the world in such a beautiful way. They don’t have a filter, so they’re not they don’t get embarrassed as easily, quite yet, they’re willing to just say say things, and I think that’s what we need to focus on, instead of banning the books, is knowing that yes, they have these questions. They want stories of their peers. They want characters who are black, characters who are Asian, characters who are LGBTQIA, plus they want to see unhoused characters. They want to see characters in wheelchairs because they want to learn about their potential friends, classmates, family members, neighbors. But when you ban books, you take away those opportunities. If they have questions, you can address it all of us who are saying we have the freedom to read. We want access to books. We’re not saying that you the grown up and your kids can’t have a conversation and say that your kid can’t read this book, that’s totally fine. You’re the grown up. You’re trying to figure out where your kids at. It’s okay if your kid may not be ready for those books, because another kid may absolutely be ready to read that book, and that’s also absolutely okay. And I think, lastly, I think it’s so important to talk about access to books and to stop banning books. Is because for so long, on the topic of literacy, there’s so many of us who didn’t have a chance to be literate. Almost every talk I do lately at library conferences, educator conferences, I mentioned my grandparents, who were not allowed to have library cards as kids. They weren’t allowed to visit libraries. They’ve since passed away, but they were so proud that myself became a librarian when they didn’t have my grandfather didn’t have an education past ninth grade. I got a bachelor degree, I got a master’s degree, and now I go around bothering people about libraries and literacy when it previously it wasn’t part of their lives, and not just not part of their lives. It was forbidden from doing so. And I think that’s why it’s so important to talk about literacy is because we do all have a chance to be literate, and that’s such a beautiful thing, because so many people struggle with literacy or didn’t have access to it. So I believe that we each have to do everything in our power to pursue literacy at all costs.

Selley Abebe  18:15  

I love that last perspective that you offered as it relates to your grandparents, that was beautiful. Let’s put a pin right there, and when we come back, we gotta dive into the book banning thing. I think that’s a conversation. I’d love your perspective on coming up what kids really think about book bans, how libraries differ across the country, and what it looks like when you treat children like whole people anxiety and all stay with us. We’ve been talking to Michael Derek about libraries joy and who decides what stories kids get to see. Here’s where I jump in with something that hit me as a mom. What I’ve found is development and learning never really ends, and I think it actually gets a little tricky and complicated when you become a parent, and oftentimes, in my limited experience, it’s me that needs to be ready for that developmental leap, and not necessarily my kids. And I think that holds true to the conversation around the book banning fears, and it’s really an adult level conversation, right? Where I think, you know, it is overwhelming to think about the responses, because kids are naturally curious, and once you pique that curiosity, it’s hard to kind of turn the light off or unlearn what you just learned, or, you know what you might be interested in, and I think that may be a good opportunity of something to explore on this show, but then just, you know, more broadly in the national discourse, because I think that ultimately is understandably, in some situations, you know, difficult, and oftentimes parents. Of color have to have very difficult conversations with kids, regardless of their developmental level, because of just the realities of the nature of the world we live in today. So you know, it’s it’s hard all around.

Mychal Threets  20:14  

It’s very hard. I think we often forget that kids have opinions about banned books, because honestly, I learned lately in conversations with fifth graders, and fourth graders, and seventh graders, that they don’t often know that books are being banned because the grown ups the teachers aren’t able to talk with them about it. They’re not able to give reasons, and oftentimes they just remove the book without telling the kids. So these school libraries are getting smaller and smaller, and some of these kids, they read what’s going on the world, and they’re like, what is happening? Why are you banning our stories? And these are fifth graders, seventh graders, eighth graders, who are, who want to have a voice, who want to say, Give us our stories. We just, we just want to read. In this conversation about banned books is these people who are saying, Let’s ban the book, which is honestly a very small percentage of people. They’re just very loud about wanting to do so is I believe they should start having to go to these schools and tell the kids. This is why I want the book banned. They should have to answer questions from the kids, because they’re going to have have questions. And if you’re so adamant about wanting a book banned, you should be able to tell those kids exactly why, when they’re befuddled, when they’re still perplexed. I would hope that they would realize that perhaps they were incorrect, and maybe the book should just be banned for them, which is okay, every book is not for everyone, but every book is for someone.

Selley Abebe  21:25  

One thing kids are going to have is questions. A lot of them.

Mychal Threets  21:29  

Question, questions or statements. If you give them a chance to raise their hand, they’re gonna they’re gonna say something.

Selley Abebe  21:34  

Have you noticed differences between libraries located in urban settings, suburban settings, rural settings, and communities now, even airports?

Mychal Threets  21:44  

I have noticed several differences. I mean, the library is a library wherever you go, no matter like what the thinking is in each different state. I’ve been, I think, to nearly every single state in the United States in the past couple of years, and each state thinks a little bit differently. But the library people are always like, we love the library. We want to love books. Dog man is beloved everywhere, everywhere I go, good chunk of people still know about Louis Hacker’s Wayside school and holes with Stanley yell nets. Beverly Cleary remains the queen of children’s literature. Everyone knows Junie B Jones, Amelia Bedelia. People are very it’s kind of controversial. Some people love Amelia. Some people are like Amelia is a bit too, too much for me. Those are all the same. But I think the thing that does change that would surprise people is because of funding just at various lack of access to to libraries in many different states, in many and many communities. Not so much if it’s suburban, if it’s a certain type of neighborhood, but more so just the state. I’ve been surprised myself to learn that states like Arizona, Arizona has almost no school libraries whatsoever. In a state like New York, which is kind of like the mecca of libraries, with the New York Public Library, they do have school libraries, but they don’t have a lot of designated school librarians or school library workers. If they do, oftentimes, it’ll be a teacher who has since filled the role at the school library, which is not the worst thing in the world. I think I’m in the probably in the minority, who says, at least there’s someone specifically assigned to the school library. But I love the show Abbott elementary I love the one the characters talked about every library should have a librarian, talking about every school library should have librarian. And it’s so very true. So while I’m appreciative of teachers filling in for the role, library work is very specific, there’s a reason that we need a master’s degree so that there should be school librarians, or at least a school library, Media Tech, in each of the school libraries. And I think that’s what I’ve been shocked to discover differs when you travel at different libraries around the United States, is that there are different access to these books for these students. Public libraries are largely the same. I think some of them have more of the Special Collections. Some libraries have more video games, more musical instruments. They may have two or three, 3d printers, as opposed to one. I’ve noticed more often the lack of staffing, the lack of librarians in visiting different types of libraries.

Selley Abebe  23:53  

That’s very interesting, especially about Arizona.

Mychal Threets  23:56  

Yes, I don’t even think it’s necessarily overall budgeting funding all the time that leads to that is more so of actual support of a library as the decision makers thinking is library important. Schools are so concerned about testing, and in order for a kid to be a test taker, they have to be able to read that test book. So everything that you want them to do in schools, even if you think a library is not important, reading and literacy is important which is part of that library. So in order for your student to be the best possible student, they need a library. They need to be reading at school because they’re doing it already. It just may not be the chapter book that you think that they’re reading in the school library. It may not be evident in dog man, in Dork Diaries, in Cherry Craft graphic novels, but it’s still very, very important. Once they read for joy, that’s when they’re being able to just read, read everything, and flourish in the way that you want them to, and expect them to with the various expectations that come from school.

Selley Abebe  24:54  

Again, very interesting. Through social media, you’ve opened up quite a bit around your mental health and how you process anxiety. It has been so helpful for, I think children, hands down, but also for adults, that the way that you paint pictures with your words is so clear. And I think sometimes when even adults are feeling feelings, you don’t even know how to quite connect them to identify and then act accordingly. I just love the way that you’re so vocal around, around the issue. And now kids have had to deal with so much with a growing social media environment. Constant changes in technology. We’re still kind of in this weird post COVID What are we? You know, type of society. Sports are changing. I mean, everything in the lives of children just have shifted drastically. I think, you know, in the last decade. What have you noticed in your conversations with kids?

Mychal Threets  25:54  

I think I’ve noticed a lot of what I dealt with as a library kid is that they’re suffering just as much as adults are. I think, and I’ve talked about it a lot, is that adults often, often think, I don’t think we think it, but we subconsciously believe that mental health is an adult problem, like, almost like, once you turn 18, then you can have anxiety, then you can suffer from panic attacks, then depression becomes a real thing. But in talking with kids, it’s very evident that they deal with just as much, if not more, anxiety, than we do. And oftentimes, I think what they’re feeling in those in that context is a lot of what myself, yourself and so many listeners have experienced is that it’s we’re talking about this in 2025. For the last several decades, mental health has been very stigmatized where we don’t talk about we don’t have a chance to embrace our feelings, to talk about our emotions, to honestly, to have a chance to to get better, to give our brain a rest, so that we can get to a day where maybe we don’t have as much anxiety or panic. And I think talking with kids, they’re like, Yeah, I’m feeling anxious. I’m feeling depressed, maybe I’m having a panic attack. I’ve been with kids in the library where they’re having a panic attack for the very first time, and their grown ups don’t know what’s happening because they’ve never talked about it openly, panic attacks present in very different ways. Sometimes their grown ups are rightfully very worried that they think their kid is having, a having a heart attack. So you have to go through those things with them. And I’m like, I’m not a medical professional, and I hate to say those things, or preface things by saying I’m not a doctor, I’m not a therapist. When I’ve lived through all those, all those different things, I’m able to use shared experience to say this is what might be going on. And oftentimes, I found that with kids and mental health, you just have to talk to talk with them like they’re an adult. You may say some things are bigger, and they’ll just like you said, they always have questions. And depending on the age is as low as kindergarten, you can talk about your stomach hurting. You can be like, I have basically have a headache in my stomach. For me, I usually can. I usually will show them my tattoos and be like, Oh, pins and needles in my tattoos. I feel like my tattoos are moving when I have anxiety, it’s hard to breathe. And those are all things that they understand, because it’s oftentimes what’s happening to them in the throes of their mental health. You just have to talk, talk with kids openly about anxiety and not, it doesn’t have to be heavy. It’s just a mention of the words anxiety. It’s talking about mental health in ways that show that there are still joys of having a good day. That’s mental health too. Mental health is a positive thing. There’s mental health and there’s mental health struggles. We can talk about mental health and say self care is important. To drink water, to go for walks, to pet your dogs, to pet your cats, to go on little trips with your, with your family, watching basketball, playing basketball. All these things is different for every single person. But most of all, I learned that we just have, we have to talk about it so that they’re prepared for what might happen, for what they might be experiencing. I had a kid at a school library not too long ago asked me, What do I do for my anxiety? And I talked about putting my hands and in my pockets, going for silly walks, for my silly mental health, doing the 54321 technique, looking for five things you can see, four things you can hear that sort of thing. And just saying, Yeah, this is, this is what I do. And then asking that question back to them, what do you do? And they’re just like, Oh, I do. I do this. I do that. I pet my cat, my talk to my little brother, all those different things that they do, but I think the most important thing I’ve learned is to have a conversation with them, because it’s important to make sure that they know that what’s going on is very real and that their emotions and feelings are entirely valid.

Selley Abebe  29:13  

Absolutely. I love how you say library kids are going to save the world, because I think that’s very true. You know, we know that libraries are a critical piece to support children and families and again, at first focus, you know, we work on all issues impacting kids because we recognize that they all matter, right? If kids are hungry, if they’re worried about ICE coming to get them from school or a local library, these are all things that dictate and shape their lives and their education and their outcomes ultimately, and we know that they need so much more. In your opinion, especially now that you’ve shifted into this role of advocacy, are there policies that you feel like would benefit children as a whole?

Mychal Threets  29:57  

No specific policies, I think any. Policy that focuses on library, focuses on education, focuses on ensuring that kids have access to food, access to water, basically any, any policy that makes sure that our kids have the chance to flourish and to thrive is a policy that I that I support, I think will set them up to be able to to save the world. Library kids will save the world. I think I said that, and I thought maybe it’s too much pressure, but library kids have since assured me that is not too much pressure, because they’re adamant that they’re going to save the world. They grew up with the Incredible Hulk. They grow up with Spider Man. They grow up with Batman, with Miles Morales, which whoever their version of a superhero is, and they’re like, that’s who I’m gonna be. It’s capable. It’s possible for me. So we just need to introduce policies that convince them to keep on thinking that way, to keep on growing, to make sure that they have a chance to go to school, to afford school, that the stressors of education isn’t too much for them. And if it is, then maybe we need policies to revamp those expectations and say this is the way that we have to get them going forward. And that’s why I love being homeschooled. It was a chance for me to, to know that I learned differently than most kids. I’m not a dumb person, I’m an educated person, but I never did well in structured school. Taking tests was very anxiety inducing for me, but online school was where it was at for me. My mom made sure that when we took tests, if we got a D or an F, then she was like, now I know what you what you don’t know. We’re going to go back and we’re going to learn those things, and we’re going to retake the test. And that’s what schools should be doing. That’s what policies should be doing, that should be setting us up for success, setting kids up for success, so that if they don’t know something, they can learn it and they can pass. Because that’s the goal of education, not to fail them, but to teach them, to encourage them, to lead them forward, and that’s what I’m hoping for. I think even a policy like saying, You know what, we don’t need perfect attendance awards anymore. Perfect Attendance is not something that makes your student a better person. So many people are not capable of going to school. You mentioned, you mentioned ICE. Some people do not go to school because they’re afraid of what’s going to happen, but they are still just as smart as a kid who’s able to go to school every single day, they have a chance to to get straight A’s, just like all those different kids. So I think we just need policies that empower empower kids and get them moving forwards, policies selfishly that make sure libraries are funded, policies that ensure teachers are paid what they’re worth, which is far more than they’re making right now. Policy, just to give the people who I love are Mr. Rogers helpers, policies, and make sure that they have every tool at their disposal to create the best possible future for the kids.

Selley Abebe  32:32  

I love that so we ask every guest of ours this question, and I feel like you’re gonna have some good ones. The nature of all of our work is so hard in different ways. And you know, we lean on our guests for a solid playlist to turn to some songs or albums when it just feels like a lot, but we need to keep going. What is your recommendation, Mychal?

Mychal Threets  32:53  

Every single playlist I have is all over the place. I’m sure that “Defying Gravity” is gonna be on my Spotify wrapped I love any chance to listen to Cynthia Erivo sing the word unlimited. It’s just very empowering. I’m a huge fan of Selena Quintanilla Perez. I love bidi. Bidi bomb. Bomb. It’s a great song to get you going, to give you hope, to make you move. Even if you’re like me and you have no rhythm, you can still, you can still give it your best. I’m from the Bay Area, so I always enjoy listening to Mac tre and e 40. It may not be able to empower library kids as much. Library grown ups may not like it too much, but it’s still there for you. I’m all aboard the Kendrick Lamar hype train. Love going to libraries and hearing library kids yell out mustard, and the library grown ups are like, stop that. This is the library. Just whisper it. So I love, I love that takeover hot to go by chapel. Rome is just so is so much fun. Reading Rainbow is one of my all time favorite shows of our Burton is my hero. I think listening to the Reading Rainbow theme song will always get you going on the topic of theme songs. I think just the whole The Golden Girls. Thank you for being a friend. It’s just such a reminder to

Selley Abebe  33:59  

Oh my gosh, I love that. I actually was at a Valentine’s Day Trip with maybe like 16 other friends, and everyone had a signature drink to make with a partner, and I was closing it out with one of my girlfriends, and that was our theme song. So we were playing The Golden Girls theme song as we served our our adult beverages. It’s a classic.

Mychal Threets  34:21  

That’s amazing. I also love that you can go on a trip with 16 friends. That’s a good, healthy, healthy amount of friends. I can’t say I could think of 16 people that I could go on a trip with that aren’t my family. So so good for you. That’s good, that’s good for your mental health, that’s good for your place in life.

Selley Abebe  34:36  

It is, it is. I’m grateful. Mychal, thank you so much for your time.

Mychal Threets  34:40  

Thank you. No, this has been such a great conversation. I appreciate it. I appreciate your focus on children, your support of libraries, all the good things in the world, giving kids the best possible chance for education and literacy.

Selley Abebe  34:53  

Mychal, I could have talked to him for hours. He was so sweet. What I love the most is that he reminds us that every kid, no matter their background, zip code or reading level, deserves access to stories that reflect their full humanity, and that talking about joy, anxiety and possibility in the same breath that was the good stuff. Speaking of kids is a podcast by First Focus on Children, produced by Windhaven Productions and Bluejay Atlantic. Elizabeth Windom is the supervising producer, Julia Windom is the editor and Jay Woodward is the Senior Producer. For more information about this episode, visit firstfocus.org.